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90plus vs c.header vs Jpipe

linuxman51 said:
Some have given up and gone the LS route, and to a certain degree, why not-it's easy. the 300+ club thing is the only one, that's part of why that's there. It was proposed to create more of them a bit back, but then folks started getting upset about who got to claim what based on _____________, and I don't think the discussion moved from there.
http://forums.turbobricks.com/showthread.php?t=358715

Dana would need to opine on that, but I'm all for it.



gotcha. sometimes easier is just easier.
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The reason you don't do this as a volvo tuner is because it isnt a volvo anymore and an entirely different knowledge base is needed to deal with the LS motor. In short it takes more finite skill and cash to push the volvo 4 cylinder to levels well above 300. To me it requires more know how . Throwing an 8 cylinder in it is about the oldest trick in the world to make bodies that originally had a 4 cylinder in it to go faster. I don't really want a volvo that sounds like a Camaro....If I want that Ill buy a Camaro with much better suspension. If the european tuners can extract higher levels from the VOLVO engines why cannot we without GMs help?

I dont get the argument. A certified and verified dyno run video should be valid enuf for anyone but the board is excessive and zany and that continues to be pointed out to you. The other problem with that is the people who have accomplished it trying to keep it an elitist club by denying others who have reached that level into the club without all that extra **** they needed to provide to their superior asses. They take it all more serious than is really is so I'm sure for them God almighty himself needs to sign off for it to be valid. Thats why some of us dont care about it and do not post based on what we have accomplished on a dyno.
 
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we can. some of us do. some of us also like to have fun and not fool with things constantly (that apparently is not me though, I can't seem to leave well enough alone even when it's good) There's not a lot of sub 12 second volvo powered volvos floating around on the forum, and that becomes more and more rare air if you will the further you go (although I'll say this.. a decent setup with 350ish hp should be a low 12 to high 11 on a good night at the track). the badging hasn't kept up, partially because it's such a small group I think (although the 300+ club was pretty small when it got started as well)
 
linuxman51 said:
we can. some of us do. some of us also like to have fun and not fool with things constantly (that apparently is not me though, I can't seem to leave well enough alone even when it's good) There's not a lot of sub 12 second volvo powered volvos floating around on the forum, and that becomes more and more rare air if you will the further you go (although I'll say this.. a decent setup with 350ish hp should be a low 12 to high 11 on a good night at the track). the badging hasn't kept up, partially because it's such a small group I think (although the 300+ club was pretty small when it got started as well)
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The problem I have is there are some people here that do not talk at all and are really experts because the board is sometimes dominated by certain individuals that are not as sharp as the think they and they are run off by them because it simply isn't worth it many times for people that have lives outside of needing to be the guru here.

Im surprised for volvo tuners the the ECO club isnt more attractive as an accomplishment but thats just me. You can shove alot of boost and fuel in there and make power, but making it more efficiently is an accomplishment any tuner could be proud of. However I have no issue with a 300 club. Im sure its started out as a group goal wed like to see everyone at but somehow I think it is used as a I know what Im talking about metric instead and that makes it really unattractive. For one thing a poster may not have really nothing to do with why his engines makes power because power can be brought from someone else. U dont need to be an expert to have a 300hp volvo because you can simply buy one post the dyno chart and stick your tongue out. A silly metric easily circumvented by people with long pockets. Of course there will come potential value from some who has done it but the presentation of it and a real explanation of why you do something a certain way is alot more convincing and helpful than a badge beneath a handle.
 
hk 40 said:
The problem I have is there are some people here that do not talk at all and are really experts because the board is sometimes dominated by certain individuals that are not as sharp as the think they and they are run off by them because it simply isn't worth it many times for people that have lives outside of needing to be the guru here.

Im surprised for volvo tuners the the ECO club isnt more attractive as an accomplishment but thats just me. You can shove alot of boost and fuel in there and make power, but making it more efficiently is an accomplishment any tuner could be proud of. However I have no issue with a 300 club. Im sure its started out as a group goal wed like to see everyone at but somehow I think it is used as a I know what Im talking about metric instead and that makes it really unattractive. For one thing a poster may not have really nothing to do with why his engines makes power because power can be brought from someone else. U dont need to be an expert to have a 300hp volvo because you can simply buy one post the dyno chart and stick your tongue out. A silly metric easily circumvented by people with long pockets. Of course there will come potential value from some who has done it but the presentation of it and a real explanation of why you do something a certain way is alot more convincing and helpful than a badge beneath a handle.
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That paradigm exists everywhere, any time you get a group of people together, and I can think of dozens of reasons why people don't wax poetic in every thread about performance (the term 'search noob' comes to mind, a callous way of suggesting that the person asking the questions-which could be considered basic invest a bit in their own problem and spend some time learning first). I'm not an expert on all things, but I have been tweaking and tuning and breaking volvos for comfortably over two decades now, and if you happen to catch me in a serious discussion about something-something that doesn't happen all that frequently on the forum anymore unfortunately for a variety of reasons-it would be a reasonable assumption that it's something I've probably done or used or had to deal with along the way. That list is long and distinguished and littered with the charred remnants of many old dogmas that used to be gospel that people before me would quite angrily defend. It's honestly been a long time since anyone's gotten me worked up about anything like that, but I'll also freely admit that threads that have gone sideways are fairly entertaining in the mean time both as a spectator and participant.

Personality and inflection are things that are easily lost in text, and if we dulled the forum down to nothing but rote mechanics, it'd be boring and little more than rehashed information that's fairly universally applicable (more air and fuel in, more power out, yay science), so spending time and trying to learn some of the personalities falls on the end-user.

Regarding the 300+ badge, there is no perfect system to sort out who knows what they're talking about (and may or may not just be having fun at another individual's expense in a given thread) or not, but it unfortunately remains a measuring stick for relative amounts of knowledge-if largely out of context. I would say though, that when we do the East v West on a regular basis and things like that, it gets a bit easier to pick out who what why where and how without asking questions or digging through years of info on the forum. But that's kind of faded recently as well. There's plenty of information floating around on the forum though, and plenty of discussion about why things were done a certain way, etc. Most of mine is documented to a greater or lesser extent in my project threads, and many other peoples' is as well.

I suppose that's what happens when you have a decade or so of people joining, asking how much boost they can run on a stock setup, and then skipping on out to something else when it doesn't magically make 10,000hp. Not to a person obviously, but enough that there's memes about it.
 
linuxman51 said:
That paradigm exists everywhere, any time you get a group of people together, and I can think of dozens of reasons why people don't wax poetic in every thread about performance (the term 'search noob' comes to mind, a callous way of suggesting that the person asking the questions-which could be considered basic invest a bit in their own problem and spend some time learning first). I'm not an expert on all things, but I have been tweaking and tuning and breaking volvos for comfortably over two decades now, and if you happen to catch me in a serious discussion about something-something that doesn't happen all that frequently on the forum anymore unfortunately for a variety of reasons-it would be a reasonable assumption that it's something I've probably done or used or had to deal with along the way. That list is long and distinguished and littered with the charred remnants of many old dogmas that used to be gospel that people before me would quite angrily defend. It's honestly been a long time since anyone's gotten me worked up about anything like that, but I'll also freely admit that threads that have gone sideways are fairly entertaining in the mean time both as a spectator and participant.

Personality and inflection are things that are easily lost in text, and if we dulled the forum down to nothing but rote mechanics, it'd be boring and little more than rehashed information that's fairly universally applicable (more air and fuel in, more power out, yay science), so spending time and trying to learn some of the personalities falls on the end-user.

Regarding the 300+ badge, there is no perfect system to sort out who knows what they're talking about (and may or may not just be having fun at another individual's expense in a given thread) or not, but it unfortunately remains a measuring stick for relative amounts of knowledge-if largely out of context. I would say though, that when we do the East v West on a regular basis and things like that, it gets a bit easier to pick out who what why where and how without asking questions or digging through years of info on the forum. But that's kind of faded recently as well. There's plenty of information floating around on the forum though, and plenty of discussion about why things were done a certain way, etc. Most of mine is documented to a greater or lesser extent in my project threads, and many other peoples' is as well.

I suppose that's what happens when you have a decade or so of people joining, asking how much boost they can run on a stock setup, and then skipping on out to something else when it doesn't magically make 10,000hp. Not to a person obviously, but enough that there's memes about it.
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I disagree fundamentally with alot you've said. My response to this is in OT its time to move on in the performance section.
 
hk 40 said:
If I could weld up my own at only the expense of cheap steel I wound not pay 600 dollars for an exhaust header unless it brings a significant marque of improvement over what can be built. It better be beautiful too. You have all the time in the world to come up with something that works why kick half a stack. None of these ideas mentioned will hinder him from 300 hp. but why is that always the target. I get lost with this because If a person can weld one up they can virtually copy any design they see. You can damn near buy the welder at that price. In my mind it would be better to use a tig for this. For 600 bucks make the header titanium please. But why worry about this at the hp levels he wants.
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$600 for a custom turbo manifold is dirt cheap in reality. You need to get out more. Having tools and materials does not mean they have the skills/ability to build a nice well designed/engineered part.

Also, a decent tig welder is a lot more than $600.
 
hk 40 said:
I disagree fundamentally with alot you've said. My response to this is in OT its time to move on in the performance section.
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it's ok to disagree. we can discuss it further elsewhere. I see things the way I see them based on my set of experiences over the years both here and elsewhere. carry on ;)
 
If I could weld up my own at only the expense of cheap steel I would not pay 600 dollars for an exhaust header unless it brings a significant marque of improvement over what can be built. It better be beautiful too.


Yours Truly,
Hubert
 
It’s a ****load of work to fabricate a header or manifold that is not only functional, but doesn’t require one to make special tools to get bolts on and off. It’s time consuming. The same could be said for something like head porting… it is afterall just a coupla bits and a grinder… surely anyone can do it right? Is it really worth the $1500 advanced induction charges for their CNC ported heads? $600 isn’t a bad deal for considering most of that money is in labor cost. How much is your time worth?
 
Anyone constantly on forums has plenty of time to waste. At least 600 dollars worth. Building things for yourself isnt for time or speed its for self gratification and developing new skill set. Its called growth in your hobby which really isnt a much of a hobby if all you do is buy stuff off a shelf an install it. Its a matter of opinion not a matter of right and wrong and this is mine with all things considered. In my mind you need to be in possession of several pieces of general machine shop tools to build a quality header.
 
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http://forums.turbobricks.com/showpost.php?p=6161379&postcount=2
http://forums.turbobricks.com/showpost.php?p=6161512&postcount=5
http://forums.turbobricks.com/showpost.php?p=6195720&postcount=11

To me it would be otherwise inexplicable that several other members have already posted photos of headers they have built. If the photos aren't posted to suggest what is possible with DIY then they'd inherently be for the purpose of self aggrandizing. :omg: It would make no sense to show him what they have done then tell him in the same breath he cannot do it or it isn't worth his time if he had the necessary tools and wants to try simply because I suggested he could considering all the proof of that others have already posted here. Thats a bit counter productive in that argument. Seems to me if he's doing J pipes when he's bored or bad weather arrives he's already at this.....and time isn't much of a concern. Ill state this since It seems I constantly need to for some people here. He doesn't have to follow what I'd do but since DIY already seems to be the spirit here in photos the suggestion to carry on with that sprit shouldn't be much of a concern when every suggestion is made directly to him, who so far has enuf time and skill to build j pipes and ask about it on a forum. :grrr:
 
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Thanks to everybody for good advice. I just started welding about a year ago with flux core mig. Im getting better at fabbing and welding. Id like to build my own header someday. Worse case Ill tack it up then take to someone and have them finish it up. But I bet I can do it. Thanks
 
90volvo said:
Thanks to everybody for good advice. I just started welding about a year ago with flux core mig. Im getting better at fabbing and welding. Id like to build my own header someday. Worse case Ill tack it up then take to someone and have them finish it up. But I bet I can do it. Thanks
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Having done it myself/with some help, just buying the header from Sweden Exhaust for around $600 is the move...you'll have $300-400 in materials alone and then a ton of time into building and fitting all of the pieces.
 
90volvo said:
Thanks to everybody for good advice. I just started welding about a year ago with flux core mig. Im getting better at fabbing and welding. Id like to build my own header someday. Worse case Ill tack it up then take to someone and have them finish it up. But I bet I can do it. Thanks
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I bet you can too. Practice makes perfect. That's how you learn to do things and get better at them. By trying. Once you've mastered the skillset it will be 10 times as valuable because you can replicate it over and over again for others as well as yourself. My friend MarcusJ seems to be creating really complexed bends and making it fit. From the look of his compound turbo thread he's doing these things fairly fast. Im sure you can pm him on this board and get a few pointers. A burns collector is an expensive piece but maybe there are others that supply cheaper ones for those critical merge point to the flange for the turbo.

Good Luck,
Hubert
 
RvolvoR said:
Having done it myself/with some help, just buying the header from Sweden Exhaust for around $600 is the move...you'll have $300-400 in materials alone and then a ton of time into building and fitting all of the pieces.
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+1

Even if you do mild steel, a set of flanges will run a bill or two, schedule 40 els is another, some schedule 40 straight, cutoff wheels, flap discs, and then buying/renting/borrowing a capable mig, a bottle of gas, and you?re coming up on that 4-600$ pretty quick. Then the time?.

My most recent manifold ran me around 600 in materials. It?s all 304 stainless schedule 10, made up a dxf for the head flange and had a buddy cut it on a CNC plasma, then I finished the porting myself. Took me about 4 months to complete, but I was just poking at it an hour or two here and there. With stainless, and purging all the runners, it was pretty spendy in the argon area, but I?m happy with the results.
 

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Me too. Pushrod tippy tappet noises sound fun when you’re blowing 20psi down it’s throat. That one hasn’t seen the dyno yet, but I’m excited to see what it’ll do. The runners are equal-ish 4>2, then equal lengths from each merge to the twin scroll flange. Intakes are equal and running near fifth harmonic, but it’s all flanged for dcoe and I have spacers for 6-7th as well in case I want to play with it. Intake tract+plenum volume is 4x displacement from compressor inlet to valve, exhaust is 1.5x displacement from valve to turbine. The hopes are to have reduced lag, and a fat stiff torque band that carries through the revs.
 
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