Vintage Does anyone know what motor oil Irv Gordon used??

Irv changed his oil every three thousand miles.

With such frequent oil changes it really may not matter too much which weight or brand he used.

I change oil and filter frequently and use Wal-Mart branded Supertech dino oil for my three turbobricks; I have used entry-level oils for decades and have never experienced an oil-related issue.

Personally I think people who don't change their oil and filter more frequently than the car mfr. rcommends are taking an unnecessary risk.

I've been using the cheap "Formula Shell" 10w30. It seems adequate. The only time I had an issue with oil was when I used Quake State 10w30 once and ended up with a thick brown layer at the bottom of my head. It disappeared after the next change though.

Mr. V said:

Irv changed his oil every three thousand miles.

With such frequent oil changes it really may not matter too much which weight or brand he used.

I change oil and filter frequently and use Wal-Mart branded Supertech dino oil for my three turbobricks; I have used entry-level oils for decades and have never experienced an oil-related issue.

Personally I think people who don't change their oil and filter more frequently than the car mfr. rcommends are taking an unnecessary risk.

Click to expand...

THIS

Mr. V said:

Irv changed his oil every three thousand miles.

With such frequent oil changes it really may not matter too much which weight or brand he used.

I change oil and filter frequently and use Wal-Mart branded Supertech dino oil for my three turbobricks; I have used entry-level oils for decades and have never experienced an oil-related issue.

Personally I think people who don't change their oil and filter more frequently than the car mfr. rcommends are taking an unnecessary risk.

Click to expand...

Yep. I agree.

I don't get why people think Irv's car is so legendary. Yes, the SHELL was propelled much further than most other vehicles, but it certainly wasn't record breaking. I say shell because beyond the oil change deal, I also recall reading that he made the Volvo dealer rebuild his engine every 300k regardless of whether it was necessary it or not.

At that rate, just run Super Tech conventional or whatever is on sale. Besides, I'm a believer that the majority of your engine bearing issues in older cars are going to be caused by long-starts (little to no oil pressure) and outside junk that get into the oil from crappy old case vents. The most expensive oil in the world isn't going to save you from that. This is one of the major reasons why "highway miles" are different from city miles in terms of longevity. Less start-ups = less problems.

I hadn't read that. Certainly, little was spared in terms of maintenance, but everything I've ever read on the topic of Irv's car said that it had a fair amount of work done at around 750K miles (new cam/lifters, head redone, no bottom end work though). And then proceeded to cover another 2 million miles without significant work. Until a very comprehensive rebuild (still the original block, crank, rods, head) at around 2.7 million miles.

JohnMc said:

Until a very comprehensive rebuild (still the original block, crank, rods, head) at around 2.7 million miles.

Click to expand...

That supposedly did not even need to be done!

I do however, question the rarity of the super high milage thing...
Look at, for just one instance, Egyptian Mercedes taxi's

I think I remember Irv saying the car had started to really feel tired at that point. Losing some pep, etc.


And yeah, that Mercedes might have passed Irv's total, if Mercedes hadn't bought it and stuck it in a museum in 2004. But while Mercedes diesels of that vintage are pretty legendary in terms of reliability, he didn't put 2.8 million miles on the same engine: https://highmileclub.wordpress.com/...achinidis-and-his-2-85-million-mile-mercedes/

It appears he used four engines in the car during his time as a drivers and rotated them. This is not too surprising given the sheer amount of miles driven. Still, even with engine replacement, the total distance of 2,858,307 Miles before it was retired.

Click to expand...

Rotating the engines implies that they're getting major work done on them between turns at bat.

Irv's car (apparently) went the whole way on the same drivetrain, with 1 1/2 rebuilds.

I used to use Warren oil 15-40w. It is a truck oil that has 'Soot Slayer' in it. Nothing can beat that for protection.

Irvs car never had the trans or rear axle rebuilt from what I've read. He was the true master of rolling up the miles on a car.

Hemmings sports and exotic magazine did a excellent story on the car, with tons of info from Irv himself. If I recall they even listed consumables like tires and oil changes. Really miss that magazine, I?ll find the issue this weekend
Don?t know if Lucas oil additive is bad but I definitely wouldn?t add a whole quart of anything that wasn?t actual oil.

everyhumanvovo said:

Reason have looked for other supposedly longer lasting oils, whether correct or not, is it seems natural mineral oil seems to become darker sooner which I assumed with my lead foot meant it was breaking down.

Click to expand...

Looking at Irv Gordon's habits would be a great starting spot, except that he used dinosaur bones and changed every 3k miles as has been pointed out. So it doesn't really tell us much about long life oil.

Longer drain intervals are more prevalent in Europe, mostly because their oil is designed for it. Or maybe vice-versa. (See here for a reasonably good explanation, though admittedly it's written like an advertisement.) BMW is explicit in the LongLife specs (LL-98, LL-01) and VW has theirs (5xx.xx) and Mercedes also. (See more on specs here and here.) If European 10k mile maintenance guidelines are followed while using oil available in the US which is formulated for different priorities, sludging can take place. (See here for a description, and here for interesting pictures.)

There are many oil choices that meet the Euro spec, and they typically proudly proclaim that on the bottle. None are cheap. But they work really well, and you can easily get away with longer drain intervals. I use the color of oil on the dipstick as a guide to determine what a particular engine / particular driving conditions calls for -- the less blowby, the more slowly it gets contaminated -- but most of my fleet seems to be happy with ~10-12k so I've settled on 10k because the odometer is really easy to remember. I change the filter more frequently -- I can tell when the filter can't handle it anymore by the behavior of the oil light / gauge upon startup, it changes very subtly at about 6k-8k depending on conditions, and a fresh filter brings back the almost-immediate extinguishing of said light.

Whenever I have a valve cover off, be it 150k or 250k miles, everything inside looks clean as a whistle. If I have the heads off (or put a borescope camera through a spark plug hole), I still see cross hatches on the cylinder walls. And every vehicle I've been in charge of maintaining runs like new. I'll take that as a win.

oldnfast said:

Hemmings sports and exotic magazine did a excellent story on the car, with tons of info from Irv himself. If I recall they even listed consumables like tires and oil changes. Really miss that magazine, I’ll find the issue this weekend
Don’t know if Lucas oil additive is bad but I definitely wouldn’t add a whole quart of anything that wasn’t actual oil.

Click to expand...

Lucas oil stabilizer is very thick and appears as oil and never had a Volvo mechanic or anybody warn of using a full quart, although I see your point.

That Hemmings article will be a very interesting read. Thanks to everyone for insights! Had not heard that zinc was reduced/removed for cat converters.

Just found this oil that has zinc, good for cold starts after sitting and 15 5 star reviews at ebay:

https://www.ebay.com/urw/Lucas-SAE-.../product-reviews/1217918420?_itm=184027119991

Back label looks very appealing:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Lucas-Oil-...hvReGAvL:sc:ShippingMethodExpress!49837!US!-1

Sounds good for the B20!

everyhumanvovo said:

Lucas oil stabilizer is very thick and appears as oil and never had a Volvo mechanic or anybody warn of using a full quart, although I see your point.

That Hemmings article will be a very interesting read. Thanks to everyone for insights! Had not heard that zinc was reduced/removed for cat converters.

Just found this oil that has zinc, good for cold starts after sitting and 15 5 star reviews at ebay:

https://www.ebay.com/urw/Lucas-SAE-.../product-reviews/1217918420?_itm=184027119991

Back label looks very appealing:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Lucas-Oil-...hvReGAvL:sc:ShippingMethodExpress!49837!US!-1

Sounds good for the B20!

Click to expand...

Not so fast... "Not recommended for passenger car use... and (is for) Classic Car crowd with an increased zinc value of 2100(!) PPM."

Too much zinc can actually damage the lifters and cam. I'd recommend you stick to those with 1100-1300 PPM zinc and phosphorous, with detergents and other additives for daily drivers.

And relying on reviews on Amazon?

c1800 said:

Not so fast... "Not recommended for passenger car use... and (is for) Classic Car crowd with an increased zinc value of 2100(!) PPM."

Too much zinc can actually damage the lifters and cam. I'd recommend you stick to those with 1100-1300 PPM zinc and phosphorous, with detergents and other additives for daily drivers.

And relying on reviews on Amazon?

Click to expand...

It says not for use in cars with cat coverters. Is this ppm at amazon? Link not at amazon, and regardless, I'm here. Utilize many metrics. How will zinc damage lifters and cam?

The only thing that I am amazed at is that anybody believes Irv Gordon's story. IMO, he was a con that got caught up in his own story. The B20 carbureted engine would be lucky to make 300,000 miles before it was so loose it had almost no compression. I don't care what kind of oil you put in it. Carbureted engines suffer from fuel wash. The B20s were also known for flattening cam lobes. Not Irv's, B20. He must have had some magic Pixie dust he used to keep that engine purring like a kitten. I brought this up on the Brickboard 20 years ago and some of the folks on there went wild. Blasphemy, they said. Then, all the folks that actually worked on these cars back in the day chimed in and said, "he's correct, there is no way Irv's story is true". Believe what you will.

2manyturbos said:

The only thing that I am amazed at is that anybody believes Irv Gordon's story. IMO, he was a con that got caught up in his own story. The B20 carbureted engine would be lucky to make 300,000 miles before it was so loose it had almost no compression. I don't care what kind of oil you put in it. Carbureted engines suffer from fuel wash. The B20s were also known for flattening cam lobes. Not Irv's, B20. He must have had some magic Pixie dust he used to keep that engine purring like a kitten. I brought this up on the Brickboard 20 years ago and some of the folks on there went wild. Blasphemy, they said. Then, all the folks that actually worked on these cars back in the day chimed in and said, "he's correct, there is no way Irv's story is true". Believe what you will.

Click to expand...

I call bull***t

hessam69 said:

I call bull***t

Click to expand...

I already beat you to it. The math doesn't lie. Break it down. Irv claimed he drove 1.2 million miles in the last 11 years of his life. That would require that he drove his P1800 7 hours per day, 5 days a week averaging 50 mph 52 weeks out of the year. No vacations. Long haul truck drivers barely do that. He also supposedly kept that up since he bought the car new in 1966. Apply a little simple math and you can see what a con man he is/was. He started with a lie and doubled, tripled, quadrupled down with it until the day he died.

So you're saying 109,000 miles a year for 11 years is not true? There were days he would drive 600 miles a day. The man enjoyed driving

I really doubt his story. Not only the number of miles driven, the magic P1800 that needs so few repairs. A bit of Swedish Mythology, perhaps?

Found a thread on TB about a B20 with a failed cam lobe. Watch the video in the first post, and notice how there isn't oil flying around while the car runs with no valve cover. It does look like that cam lives a rough life.

Found more information on B18/20 longevity:

A Volvo B18/B20 engine should cover over 200,000 miles without major rebuilding – although camshafts, valve guides and fibre timing gears may need replacement at around 100,000 miles.

Click to expand...

I saw one other claim of a 250-300,000 mile lifespan in my search results, but the page was different when I went to it.

2-300,000 before a rebuild isn't bad at all for a car from the 60s, but the more I look into it the more I doubt that 3.5 million miles is possible.

I think he was a bit OCD about driving. Supposedly he picked his car up new from the dealer on a Friday, and came back the next Monday morning for his 1500 mile service. As documented by the warranty booklet.

And he got unusual service life from his 1800 because he didn't drive it 'normally'. He drove it gently. And most of the time, it would get one cold start in the morning, and he'd drive it all day long, through multiple tanks of gas, multiple warm stats (with oil still in the bearings).

ANd once he retired from his 'day job' - I think Volvo paid him to drive the car around.